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WBS210 / WBS510 with external omni directional antenna?

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WBS210 / WBS510 with external omni directional antenna?

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WBS210 / WBS510 with external omni directional antenna?
WBS210 / WBS510 with external omni directional antenna?
2016-09-20 00:40:56
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Hi guys,

I like to use the WBS210 or WBS510 (not sure yet) as AP for my backyard. Because of the special layout of the yard and terrace a directed beam is not an option, I need 360°. The max. distance within the yard would be 25m direct sight.
Is it possible to use omni directional antennas with the WBS models or are they only supposed to use the sector and dish antennas?

Thanks and cheers
Markus
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Re:WBS210 / WBS510 with external omni directional antenna?
2016-09-20 21:32:32
@Markuss this is over your head
WBS is too much for your patio
Install a CPE210 most devices are 2.4 Ghz
If you go for CPE510 only 5Ghz devices will connect
You need 360* test with one, if you are not happy add a second one
They provide lots of signal on their back
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Re:WBS210 / WBS510 with external omni directional antenna?
2016-09-21 16:51:54

danymarc wrote

@Markuss this is over your head
WBS is too much for your patio
Install a CPE210 most devices are 2.4 Ghz
If you go for CPE510 only 5Ghz devices will connect
You need 360* test with one, if you are not happy add a second one
They provide lots of signal on their back


Hi danymarc,
the thing is: there is only one spot at the edge of the house below the roof from which I could cover the whole area - when I could use 360° antennas. I already tried with a CPE210 but the beam is to narrow and some walls of the house are blocking some areas. I don't have a good second spot for a second device. So, I only have one good spot to install one device. I saw that the CPE210 has no external antenna port that's why I'm thinking about the WBS.
If I want to use the WBS - there should be no technical reason against using WBS with omni direciton antennas, right?
If I connect omni directional antennas which one would make sense in my case (dBi)? I could use TL-ANT2412D (12 dBi) or TL-ANT2415D (15 dBi) with a pigtail. Or should I better find an antenna with let's say just 2 dBi for better 360° coverage?

EDIT: OK the TL-ANT2412D and TL-ANT2415D are not what I had in mind, they are 1,5m long :-) I thought about using some much smaller antennas about 15cm long.

Thanks a lot and cheers
Markus
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Re:WBS210 / WBS510 with external omni directional antenna?
2016-09-21 22:05:56

markuss wrote

the thing is: there is only one spot at the edge of the house below the roof from which I could cover the whole area - when I could use 360° antennas. I already tried with a CPE210 but the beam is to narrow and some walls of the house are blocking some areas. I don't have a good second spot for a second device.


if you have some areas blocked with walls and other things, for a directional antenna, this problem will not improve with the use of an omnidirectional antenna and less using as a base 5GHz frequency that does not cross well the obstacles ... here I make based on a question @danymarc that what he said is very true, only connect devices based on 5GHz ... some use only dual radios (5.8 / 2.4GHz) and most only 2.4 GHz ...

The max. distance within the yard would be 25m direct sight.


for this distance does not need a big truck, you only need a small bicycle, the radius chosen by you is designed for long links of 30km; so more power does not serve to improve coverage, setting it to minimum power should if used

I saw that the CPE210 has no external antenna port that's why I'm thinking about the WBS. If I want to use the WBS


all new outdoor products TP-LINK not bring external connectors for attaching external antennas,old devices like the TL-WA5210G, TL-WA7210n TL- WA7510N and, with them could find a small outdoor antenna could 6dBi ... look for them and use one of them, but here I make another question ... how many devices you plan to connect to the target host ...?

If I want to use the WBS - there should be no technical reason against using WBS with omni direciton antennas, right?


Technically each antenna connector should not be in the air without connection with the radio on, this will damage irreparably the RF chip equipment ... you could theoretically connect any antenna for the chosen frequency; now should use omni antennas are small or big ...? NO ... the reason is that these radios are designed to work with dual polarity antennas (Vertical / Horizontal) carrying the two connectors having these radios ... antennas using a single connector as exposing not will cause the radio beeps signal as intended, since these antennas with single or simply vertical polarity (unless in the characteristics indicate that they are horizontal)... also the use of two vertical antennas an two radios near cause auto interference one for proximity, two for use as same frecuency..., in the end, can but should not, if it does the radius lose performance since it is designed to work with MiMo devices and all mobile devices have SiSo, radios coexist, but will lower the actual performance ...

Regards...
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I will give the TL-ANT2408CL a try with WBS210
2016-10-11 01:28:27

markuss wrote


EDIT: OK the TL-ANT2412D and TL-ANT2415D are not what I had in mind, they are 1,5m long :-) I thought about using some much smaller antennas about 15cm long.


You could connect an outdoor omnidirectional antenna to the WBS210, sure. In PharOS for WBS210 you can define the antenna gain in the "Wireless" menu, so that maximum EIRP will not be exceeded. There is a receipt for outdoor APs using an omnidirectional antenna from TP-Link ( http://www.tp-link.de/faq-1229.html). Although they describe the TL-WA7210, which has one connector for an external antenna, it can be done with a WBS210 also, which has two antenna chains. Make sure to connect two antennas to avoid damage to the RF adapter. With an extension cable you could even place the antennas at distant places to get better coverage of your area.

In last year's (printed) TP-Link catalog they announced a device called OBS210, which is just a WBS210 with omnidirectional antennas. I'm waiting for it to appear since then, but in the meantime I bought a WBS210 and two TL-ANT2408CL antennas which have 8dBi gain. Since the antenna gain can be defined in the WBS210, it will adapt the maximum possible transmission power accordingly (but you could/should lower the xmit power as Victor wrote). Although the TL-ANT2408CL usually is used indoor only, I will give it a try and use self-amalgamating tape to seal the antenna connectors for protection against humidity/water.

The TL-ANT2408CL's length is 30cm. See http://www.tp-link.de/products/details/cat-5691_TL-ANT2408CL.html

Hope this helps!

[Edit: seems to work.]


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Re:WBS210 / WBS510 with external omni directional antenna?
2017-05-30 07:25:22

Victor Ramos wrote

if you have some areas blocked with walls and other things, for a directional antenna, this problem will not improve with the use of an omnidirectional antenna and less using as a base 5GHz frequency that does not cross well the obstacles ... here I make based on a question @danymarc that what he said is very true, only connect devices based on 5GHz ... some use only dual radios (5.8 / 2.4GHz) and most only 2.4 GHz ...



for this distance does not need a big truck, you only need a small bicycle, the radius chosen by you is designed for long links of 30km; so more power does not serve to improve coverage, setting it to minimum power should if used



all new outdoor products TP-LINK not bring external connectors for attaching external antennas,old devices like the TL-WA5210G, TL-WA7210n TL- WA7510N and, with them could find a small outdoor antenna could 6dBi ... look for them and use one of them, but here I make another question ... how many devices you plan to connect to the target host ...?



Technically each antenna connector should not be in the air without connection with the radio on, this will damage irreparably the RF chip equipment ... you could theoretically connect any antenna for the chosen frequency; now should use omni antennas are small or big ...? NO ... the reason is that these radios are designed to work with dual polarity antennas (Vertical / Horizontal) carrying the two connectors having these radios ... antennas using a single connector as exposing not will cause the radio beeps signal as intended, since these antennas with single or simply vertical polarity (unless in the characteristics indicate that they are horizontal)... also the use of two vertical antennas an two radios near cause auto interference one for proximity, two for use as same frecuency..., in the end, can but should not, if it does the radius lose performance since it is designed to work with MiMo devices and all mobile devices have SiSo, radios coexist, but will lower the actual performance ...

Regards...


Hi!

I am interested in your solution, but i have some questions if you could enlighten me it will be great.

1-Do you have any ideia of the range with this antennas ( TL-ANT2408CL)

2-The fact that this antennas ( TL-ANT2408CL) are not 2x2 MIMO is a problem? What are the main diferences?

3-I need this solution because I will connect multiple CPE devices win a short distance (max 200m) but in a wide angle so the sector and the dish antennas are not a solution, Do you think that the EAP110-Outdoor should be ok? Or this is a better solution?

4-Using the TL-ANT2408CL outdoor was good even with water (after the isolation tape) or even isolated with the tape you do not recommend that approach?

Thanks in advance!
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Re:WBS210 / WBS510 with external omni directional antenna?
2017-05-31 05:54:37

bubas wrote

1-Do you have any ideia of the range with this antennas ( TL-ANT2408CL)


Depends also on the remote's antennas. With CPEs 200 meters should work, with TL-ANT2424B I could connect over 600 meters. This are not necessarily limits, but only what I was able to test and it worked.
2-The fact that this antennas (TL-ANT2408CL) are not 2x2 MIMO is a problem? What are the main diferences?


2x2 MIMO only means that you have 2 sender and 2 receiver antennas sending 2 spatial streams in N mode simultaneously. Actually, CPEs use 3D MIMO, meaning they utilize two antennas, one with HOR and the other with VERT polarization. If you align one TL-ANT2408CL horizontally and the other vertically, chances are that 2x2 MIMO resp. 3D MIMO will work.

3-I need this solution because I will connect multiple CPE devices win a short distance (max 200m) but in a wide angle so the sector and the dish antennas are not a solution, Do you think that the EAP110-Outdoor should be ok? Or this is a better solution?


EAP110-Outdoor will give you no better results regarding the WiFi signal, but it makes it impossible to use MAXtream or other features, which a WBS would provide. If you don't need those features of PharOS, you could also use an EAP110-Outdoor, sure.
4-Using the TL-ANT2408CL outdoor was good even with water (after the isolation tape) or even isolated with the tape you do not recommend that approach?


If you use self-amalgamating isolation tape, it is water-resistant, but the plastic housing of the TL-ANT2408CL is not UV-stable (the EAP110-Outdoor's antennas are UV-stable and weatherproof). On the other side, for connecting plenty of CPEs, I would prefer two or even three combinations of WBS and TL-ANT2415MS, which has 120° beam width @6dB. Three of them also give you a full 360° coverage. But if there are only a handful of CPEs to connect, that would be overkill.

If you do tests with any of those setups, please share your findings with the forum.
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Re:WBS210 / WBS510 with external omni directional antenna?
2017-06-03 07:15:15

R1D2 wrote



Depends also on the remote's antennas. With CPEs 200 meters should work, with TL-ANT2424B I could connect over 600 meters. This are not necessarily limits, but only what I was able to test and it worked.

2x2 MIMO only means that you have 2 sender and 2 receiver antennas sending 2 spatial streams in N mode simultaneously. Actually, CPEs use 3D MIMO, meaning they utilize two antennas, one with HOR and the other with VERT polarization. If you align one TL-ANT2408CL horizontally and the other vertically, chances are that 2x2 MIMO resp. 3D MIMO will work.



EAP110-Outdoor will give you no better results regarding the WiFi signal, but it makes it impossible to use MAXtream or other features, which a WBS would provide. If you don't need those features of PharOS, you could also use an EAP110-Outdoor, sure.

If you do tests with any of those setups, please share your findings with the forum.


Thanks a lot for the quick reply,

My usual provier doesn't have the WBS210, so now i cant test, but i think that i will buy 1 WBS210 and 1 CPE210 or maybe 2 WBS210 because the max distance in between the 2 points is 200m so maybe having 2 WBS, 1 as base and 1 as bridge may help cover the open field. So you can understand the area is an Athletics outdoor track and i want to have WIFI in the field (the spectator area is not important), what is important is the devices on the track.

What do you think its a better solution?
1WBS210 + 1 CPE210
2WBS210


If you use self-amalgamating isolation tape, it is water-resistant, but the plastic housing of the TL-ANT2408CL is not UV-stable (the EAP110-Outdoor's antennas are UV-stable and weatherproof). On the other side, for connecting plenty of CPEs, I would prefer two or even three combinations of WBS and TL-ANT2415MS, which has 120° beam width @6dB. Three of them also give you a full 360° coverage. But if there are only a handful of CPEs to connect, that would be overkill.


I will connect 2 or 3 CPE/WBS to the main pont, but like i said, the max distance from pont to pont is 200m so i think 2 TL-ANT2408CL is, like you said, "overkill".
Regarding the Antennas, i understand what you say about UV protection, do you know any brand that make Antennas like the ones on EAP110-Outdor?

For now i am using 1 EAP110-Outdoor and 1 CPE 210, the max distance for now is 150m, and tomorrow i will test the solution in production.
However i think it will work without problems, i think the WBS/CPE software (PHAROS) are much more powerful and flexible than AURANET, EAP110 does not have a client mode so its a little to basic for my taste.

Again, Thanks!
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Re:WBS210 / WBS510 with external omni directional antenna?
2017-06-03 08:33:43

bubas wrote

So you can understand the area is an Athletics outdoor track and i want to have WIFI in the field (the spectator area is not important), what is important is the devices on the track.


I see. But don't use bridge mode, this could be problematic IMHO. If I understand correctly, you have one main point connecting to several other points 200 meters away and then want to supply WiFi on each point in an omnidirectional way, right? Usually for connecting single "WiFi isles" to a main point (the "central supplier") it's recommended to use CPE/WBS for point-to-point links and EAP110-Outdoor for local distribution. Keep in mind the antenna radiation patterns of the devices: the CPE gives you 60° beam, the WBS with a sector antenna 120° and an EAP110-Outdoor 360° coverage.

Using a WBS with two TL-ANT2408CL is like a EAP110-Outdoor, but only with PharOS instead of Auranet AP's firmware. I would separate the tasks of connecting the single points to a main point and the distribution of the WiFi signal at such a single point. This way, you could use 5 GHz (CPE510) for inter-connecting the areas and 2.4 GHz (EAP110-Outdoor) for supplying the local cell around a single point. For the latter you don't need PharOS functionality, a simple AP would suffice.


I will connect 2 or 3 CPE/WBS to the main pont, but like i said, the max distance from pont to pont is 200m so i think 2 TL-ANT2408CL is, like you said, "overkill".


Mis-understanding: I meant three TL-ANT2415MS sector antennas (the big flat ones) would be overkill just to support a 360° coverage for 200 meters. This can be done using a WBS with TL-ANT2408CL and CPEs on the remote side, but then all in the 2.4 GHz band.


Regarding the Antennas, i understand what you say about UV protection, do you know any brand that make Antennas like the ones on EAP110-Outdor?


Unfortunately, no. But think about the setup with EAP110-Outdoor and CPE combined - if you have a pair at hand, I would recommend a test (even with 2.4 GHz, but for the inter-connections 5 GHz would be better - you would be able to use more channels and they are not overlapping each other).


For now i am using 1 EAP110-Outdoor and 1 CPE 210, the max distance for now is 150m, and tomorrow i will test the solution in production.

However i think it will work without problems, i think the WBS/CPE software (PHAROS) are much more powerful and flexible than AURANET, EAP110 does not have a client mode so its a little to basic for my taste.


For the AP at a single point: the more basic, the better. ;) For interconnection, PharOS is definitely better since you can use MAXtream for AirTime fairness to several CPE clients feeding the EAPs (but MAXtream is not available in bridge mode, beware!). This setup is BTW also recommended in a WISP szenario by TP-Link: a direct 5 GHz link from a WBS510 AP to a CPE510 client and local distribution at the CPE's side using an EAP110-Outdoor at 2.4 GHz.

I wish you good luck with the test!
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Re:WBS210 / WBS510 with external omni directional antenna?
2017-06-05 03:28:41

R1D2 wrote

(...) If I understand correctly, you have one main point connecting to several other points 200 meters away and then want to supply WiFi on each point in an omnidirectional way, right?


Just to clarify I need about 200m with WIFI signal, like i said an interior of an Athletics Track. I understand your suggestion, (make 1 or more isles, connecting this isles with each other in another WIFI network) but since i need WIFI coverage for other devices in the total area, i think i will use de CPE just for devices far far away and/or for devices without WIFI capability.


I wish you good luck with the test!


Regarding the tests, it was all good,

I used a EAP110-Outdoor and a CPE210 to connect a printer without WIFI capability about 120m away. I do not test any other device connected to the WIFI. It was all good, however i detected some latency inconsistency's, but maybe that was because i was using other WIFI network with all other devices (basically the infrastructure that i am aiming to repace) since both are 2.4g maybe the interference was big. But like i said other than that it was all good, not a single moment of down period.

I have other project wit similar needs, so maybe i will test the version with the WBS + TL-ANT2408CL and the CPE210, if that happen i will post the feedback.
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#10
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Re:WBS210 / WBS510 with external omni directional antenna?
2017-06-17 11:46:36
I use WBS210 or WBS510
Can use wifi from a distance of 100m, which waves are healthy and easy to use
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