Signaless in Seattle

Signaless in Seattle
Signaless in Seattle
2017-02-14 13:15:20
Model :

Hardware Version :

Firmware Version :

ISP :

Ok, im not in seattle but Texas but the title sounded good.

So i need some help here. Im quite technical, this is far from my first rodeo but im having just a heck of a time. Here is the scenario.

26 acres and no wifi/cell signal so working in the back of the property suffers in terms of connectivity and entertainment. I purchased the TL-ANT2415D 15dBi omni directional. I mounted the antenna on the roof straight vertical, ran the wire directly to three different routers. A nighthawk router a linksys router and a trendnet router. None of which offered any results further than just being in the house with the fixed antennas on the router. I played around enough and just decided to use the Linksys WRT54G which is just a fixed 2.4Ghz router (as apposed to the dual band nighthawk)

I have a TrendNet TEW-L208 wire https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000FICJ8S/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 which is a bit longer than i'd like but the only way i can make it work. Im assuming a 6dbi loss (at best). Regardless, Antenna to wire, wire to router. Plug and play.

I go about 200 feet out from the antenna and i have a stronger connection to the wifi to the nighthawk router that is sill live in a room on the other side of the house than i do with the 15dBi antenna on the roof. I RMA'd the antenna assuming clearly it has to be the antenna. Second one on the roof and no luck so as a I.T. guy i swallow my pride and call support. We go through a few things and they dig up some documentation saying the antenna should be at a 45 degree angle to the ground. Which sort of defies the point for me but see attached.

Im lost as to the technical aspects of how a "omni directional" (aka 360 degree) antenna works better angled toward the ground. I can understand the near side or the side angled TOWARD the ground to have a better connection but the far side (angled toward the sky) doesnt seem like the best premise to "omni directional".

That aside, we also looked at some of the router settings (see attached) We changed channel from "6" to auto to clear up some chatter. Dunno if that will matter but i'll check that AND the combination of the angled antenna. Which again seems quirky at best.

So in addition to the ideas i pose:

1) angling the antenna
2) adjusting the channel

i'd like folks thoughts on any of the settings in the router screen shots. I obviously flashed the firmware on the linksys router to the dd-wrt version. Gives some more control, im wondering if i can boost power to the antenna (since there doesnt seem to be away to add power to it). I dunno. basically to end the ramble, i need ideas because im not getting any sort of positive gain by having the antenna on the roof. I've read some posts stating that maxing out the "TX" (transmitting antenna?)








0
0
#1
Options
23 Replies
Re:Signaless in Seattle
2017-02-14 18:50:05
For PtMP with omnidirectional antennas the EAP110-Outdoor could be interesting. It includes 2 weatherproof 5dBi-antennas already.
See this thread: http://forum.tp-link.com/showthread.php?95421-FYI-New-EAP110-Outdoor-AP-with-omnidirectional-antennas-available

As for the antenna angle: an omnidirectional antenna emits a signal pattern like a flattened donut, hence the recommendation from support to use 45° angle, although I would recommend to mount it somewhere in the middle of the area to be supplied with WiFi in height above head level (~2 to 3 meters above ground).

But: 26 acres are 105,218 m², right? What kind of antenna does your client device have to send a signal over such a distance? Do you use an iPhone with a Yagi antenna or a laptop with a dish antenna? :)
༺ 0100 1101 0010 10ཏ1 0010 0110 1010 1110 ༻
0
0
#3
Options
Re:Signaless in Seattle
2017-02-15 02:09:34
I currently have it connected with a 26' cable so nothing crazy if you have the 12dbi even with 6' cable at 5 miles I should be rocking at 15dbi and 26'. Can you detail out your setup and settings maybe I can replicate that? I appreciate the other replies as well but really I just need connectivity to a phone out about 1/4 of a mile max. I really don't have a location to setup transmitters and receivers.
0
0
#5
Options
Re:Signaless in Seattle
2017-02-15 03:23:26
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000FICJ8S/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 is the wire im using. It's mounted just above roofline, cable runs into my attic where the wrt router is located. Getting power to the router would be a challenge if I move the router closer to the antenna hence the long wire. I suppose I can trouble shoot by getting closer with shorter wire if all else fails.

Maybe a better way to consider this is what is a good method to keep the hook up point (the roof) have an AP there on the roof or just in the attic (maybe 6 foot run at most) then that AP connecting to my main network. Which is what it seems like you have setup in your photo. My biggest concern is just heat in the attic (in texas summer) and power to whatever AP. Router etc. I'd almost certainly have to run electric to it :(
0
0
#7
Options
Re:Signaless in Seattle
2017-02-15 17:14:21

simplegreen wrote

My biggest concern is just heat in the attic (in texas summer) and power to whatever AP. Router etc. I'd almost certainly have to run electric to it :(


That's why I recommended the EAP110-Outdoor.

1. Antennas are fixed, you will get the full power out of 2x 5dBi antennas with almost no signal loss (except for connectors, ~ 0.3 dBm). If mounted outside, it can cover a large area (how large we will have to find out, it's a brand-new device).

2. It is powered over passive PoE, so you can provide 24 volts over the data cable with the included power injector for as much as 60 meters (180 foot?) length, so you could even place the AP somewhere distant of the attic on a mast outdoor nearer to where you need the WiFi signal. No separate PoE equipment necessary.

3. It is weatherproof, has a huge temperature range (-30° to +70° Celsius or -22° to 158° F) and has lightning/ESD protection built in (which you would have to provide separately with your antenna and what should be a real concern if it comes to electricity).

4. There are also similar devices such as the CPE210/510/220/520 with built-in 9dBi / 13dBi directional antennas or the WBS210/510 with an external 15dBi sector antenna over a very short cable, which could fit as well if you just need to provide the WiFi signal in one direction (but note the beamwidths of those antennas). The TL-WA7210 already has reached EOL, it's successor is CPE210 or CPE220 if available in the US.

The alternative would be to use an external antenna, external PoE, external router/AP and additional lightning protection. That's far more expensive and much more critical to set up than using an all-in-one device such as one mentioned above.

For outdoor use I dropped all external antennas such as TL-ANT2424B and TL-ANT2415D used with TL-WA7210 AP and replaced them by CPEs, WBS and (in the future the long-awaited for) EAP110-Outdoor in a PtMP setup. No trouble anymore with signal loss on antenna cables, electricity concerns and protection against harsh environmental conditions. And they cost just somewhat more as an external outdoor antenna alone.
༺ 0100 1101 0010 10ཏ1 0010 0110 1010 1110 ༻
0
0
#9
Options
Re:Signaless in Seattle
2017-02-21 10:10:47
Where can you buy this one R1? The only site i see is Amazon UK. Available in the US?
0
0
#10
Options
Re:Signaless in Seattle
2017-02-21 18:25:51
Found it only on DE and UK TP-Link sites yet, but these models are for the EU market only (different regulation requirements here, so don't order an EU model).

However, dealers in Canada already offer it: http://www.pc-canada.com/item/EAP110-OUTDOOR.html

Please call TP-Link pre-sales in the US to find out wether it is already available at US stores or wether the Canadian version would be suitable also for use in the US (I don't know much about FCC regulations in the US and CA).

Suitable cable for lightning protection is ToughCable from Ubiquiti or any other outdoor cable with a separate ground wire.
༺ 0100 1101 0010 10ཏ1 0010 0110 1010 1110 ༻
0
0
#11
Options
Re:Signaless in Seattle
2017-02-25 14:38:15
Kevsh, while im waiting for tp-link sales to find out if i can even get the TP-LINK EAP110-Outdoor what AP do you use at your existing antenna?
0
0
#12
Options
Re:Signaless in Seattle
2017-02-27 01:23:18
can you shed some light on the enclosure you have the AP in? looks like im going to try to mimic your setup
0
0
#14
Options
Re:Signaless in Seattle
2017-02-27 06:20:14
Appreciate the feedback.

So if i summarize this is what im looking at.

1) Keep the antenna where it is (works the best for me there)
2) Get a 1-2 foot 400 lmr cable
3) Install an access point with good output power to the antenna (or the same router jacked up to 251mw) in a weather proof enclosure (i have a spare pelican box i can use)
4) Run power to the AP
5) Run Eithernet (or i suppose i can go wireless but throughput goes down) to the AP
6) Ground the antenna
7) bobs your uncle.

Still a bit worried about the heat generated inside the box. Roof tops here in texas can get over 140+ Any thoughts there or just assume minimized lifetime of the unit? If i select an AP with that sort of 400mw+ output to the antenna. Could i in theory go longer on the 400lmr cable from the ap to the antenna? If so i could in theory mount the box inside the houses' attic (which may be just as hot but out of the elements i could mount a fan to it or something?

Sorry so many questions, really appreciate you hanging in there with me.
0
0
#16
Options
Re:Signaless in Seattle
2017-02-27 17:40:54
I agree with kevsh and would also not recommend to mount the AP in the attic if heat can go up to 140°F. As for lightning, ESD and even rain or humidity any consumer-grade device made for indoor use only will be problematic, too.

In one installation I had a Linksys WRT160 (the same device as on kevsh's photo) in the open, b/c of customer's demand and it did break just after a couple of months during coldness in winter. OTOH a Linksys WRT54 in my own attic survived somewhat longer, but there were no such extreme temperatures (~ 20 to 100°F usually) and the WRT54 was a rock-solid device with shielded Ethernet ports, so it was grounded to protect against ESD, while the WRT160 has plastic ports w/o shielding.

I switched to TP-Link's Professional Line of outdoor APs in early 2016. I have a CPE210, a CPE510 and a WBS210 with sector antenna on two locations. All devices did survive storms with heavy lightning ~1/4 mile away! Did not cause any problem so far. Having a temperature range from -22°F to 158°F they also kept on working in last winter's coldness. They use MIL-grade chips and weatherproof boxes, so no trouble anymore with the housing. I did wait for the EAP110-Outdoor for a year now (it was announced as OBS210 in TP-Link's product guide of early 2016) and it finally arrived on the market, although with EAP firmware instead of PharOS used in the WBS210. I will soon install them at customer's places needing omnidirectional 360° antennas.

First photo shows two CPEs on a mast powered by one PoE power source looped through the second port from the first CPE to the second CPE. This photo was taken at the time of adjustment, they are now fixed in their positions and work flawlessly since then. Antenna beamwidth is 65° for the CPE210 (2.4 GHz) and 45° for the CPE510 (5 GHz). They are used for a PtP directional link to the other side of the valley, where a second CPE combination is used. But if the beamwidth and (much lower) distance would suffice, you could also use them in a PtMP setup with end-user devices.





Second photo is a WBS210 mounted to the TL-ANT2415MS sector antenna (beamwidth 120°) in use as PtMP since last autumn, also working w/o any problem:






This is how I answered the questions in your post #16 which did arise for me as well long time ago. ;)

I still have external antennas with appropriate outdoor equipment (such as the older TL-WA7210 which has an external antenna plug) and lot of CFD-200 antenna cables for sale at eBay, but since it is EU gear it isn't suitable for use in the US.
༺ 0100 1101 0010 10ཏ1 0010 0110 1010 1110 ༻
0
0
#18
Options