Which product is right for hotel ?
Hello guys,
We're building 4 star hotel in the mountains and we we'll have GPON internet with 1gb/s speed.
Hotel will have 70 rooms for guests and each room will have 1 Smart TV that will be connected to the wi-fi.
Currently we're looking for product(s) that will have those or more features:
1) Wi-FI 5 or Wi-fi 6 (preferable)
2) Both 2.4ghz and 5ghz will be under 1 name SSID
3) Speed limit for each device (each device will be limited to 5mb/s)
4) Everything (settings) can be controlled though app or WEB interface remotely
5) Power over Ethernet (PoE)
6) Also outdoor routers wil be needed to be connected
Can someone recoomend us which router or solutions should we look ? Every advise will be appreciated Any questions please, don't hesitate to ask
- Copy Link
- Subscribe
- Bookmark
- Report Inappropriate Content
Boriy wrote
If we connect 1 side to the switch and other to the EAP-Wall (90 meters far away), can it still send data without any degradation in speed ?
Yes, but the PoE loss of line will be lager, adding to the overall PoE budget.
I recommend to place switches so that copper cables are as short as possible.
Interconnection between switches can be made directly over fiber (you need SFPs for the SFP ports).
- Copy Link
- Report Inappropriate Content
@R1D2
Did you mean, that since it's far away it might have some loses in energy when using PoE ?
We just wanted to have all our switches and routers and controllers in one room, since it would be so much easier to control and troubleshoot everything from one place.
EAP235 that's connected to VoIP phone will need 24.4 Watt. VoIP Phone will you max 6.49Watt. So from here, we should count that every EAP235 that connected to Smart TV (Ethernet) and VoIP phone (PoE) will use 24.4 Watt.
10 of EAP 235 will utilize 244 Watt, Is that correct calculation ?
- Copy Link
- Report Inappropriate Content
Boriy wrote
Did you mean, that since it's far away it might have some loses in energy when using PoE ?
Sure.
802.3af defines a 15.4 W power budget with a loss over 100m of 2.45 W, this yields 12.95 W effective PoE budget over this cable length.
802.3at defines a 25.4 W power budget with a loss over 100m of 3.5 W, this yields 21.9 W effective PoE budget over this cable length.
VoIP Phone will you max 6.49Watt. So from here, we should count that every EAP235 that connected to Smart TV (Ethernet) and VoIP phone (PoE) will use 24.4 Watt.
From the specs:
9.8 W + 6.49 W = 16.29 W total. For 10x EAP235-Wall + VoIP phone you need at least 163 W, add 16-20 W to have some headroom.
The TL-SG2428P can provide 250 W PoE budget (total power consumption 308 W), thus it could power 13x EAP235-Wall including a connected VoIP phone. But since not all devices run always at max. power at the same time, you could increase the number of EAPs if you accept that in the worst case some EAPs wil be temporarily turned off when the switch is overloaded. To reduce the number of switches you could use switches with an even higher PoE budget, provided that such a model will be produced by TP-Link for the Omada SDN solution.
Note that I don't know (yet) for sure whether the TL-SG2428P will provide PoE+ ports, since it's a brand-new product not yet listed on TP-Link's website. But for 99% certainity it should provide PoE+ ports. Still 1% uncertainity.
- Copy Link
- Report Inappropriate Content
@R1D2
We're planning to use Cat 6A, since it has 10Gb transfer rate and 100meters performance distance. Which means in future, we do not need to upgrade cables only devices.
Can Cat 6A still transfer data after 100meters with degratation in performance or it's just won't send it ?
Currently our ISP says, it can give 100mb/s right now, but will be able to give 1gb/s in near future (somewhere beginning next year). It will use GPON and will provide Huawei router for us.
So we will have
1 Huawei router
1 Core TP-Link Switch
4-5 Smart TP-link switches
We also wanted our cameras to use PoE. What advantages we'll have, if we use TP-link cameras ? (Kasa and Tapo)
It might be a little difficult to find Tp-link cameras here, so maybe we'll use different providers. As long as they support PoE we should be right ?
P.S also at home we use 9 units of Deco M5. They work perfectly and connected each other using wirelessly. Can we do the same in some areas in hotel or we need to connect every AP unit with long Ethernet cable to the switch ?
- Copy Link
- Report Inappropriate Content
Don't use the ISP supplied router to manage traffic. They're not capable of handling all the traffic that would be generated when you're fully booked (Guests + Staff and other devices inside vicinity). You would need a higher business grade router to handle to all the traffic efficiently.
You would also need to check the SLA agreements for the connection that you're getting. Usually GPON type services are provided as a best effort service (you are sharing the bandwidth with others) and geared towards home users and if a fault arises, you may be without internet few days. Buisness grade connections usually either has a direct fibre handoff or a terminates at an enterprise grade NTU such as a Juniper/Cisco device and usually has SLA stating response in 1hr, restoration in 4hrs and compensation if beyond that.
Re: using Decos and trying to work with Mesh WiFi would be a disaster considering the number of WiFi APs that will be in use in the vicinity. There's reason why they're geared towards home and small office users than Hotels/Medium to large business places. On top of that you will loose key features of the Omada SDN that is geared towards manageability if you use those.
You ought to heed what @R1D2 said earlier and look for a consultant regarding this deployment. There are too many variables at play that we simply cannot give correct answers to over a forum post. Someone needs to physically be at the property, do a site survey for ethernet runs and WiFi; look into network requirements for your needs that you've just mentioned; design your logical network and topology; design your network to be secure so that guests wouldn't abuse it.
- Copy Link
- Report Inappropriate Content
Boriy wrote
We're planning to use Cat 6A, since it has 10Gb transfer rate and 100meters performance distance. Which means in future, we do not need to upgrade cables only devices.
Can Cat 6A still transfer data after 100meters with degratation in performance or it's just won't send it ?
If you count packet loss as just a »degratation in preformance«, then yes, else: no. If you need cable runs >100m, consider to use fiber.
Albeit I have CAT.7 cables in my office, too, I would not expect the ISP's ability to deliver 10 Gbps to a single hotel room in the near future. You would need a 700 Gbps Internet uplink to provide full 10 Gbps bandwidth per room.
But why such bandwidths? Are you expecting hotel guests with their own data center in their luggage?
Currently our ISP says, it can give 100mb/s right now, but will be able to give 1gb/s in near future (somewhere beginning next year). It will use GPON and will provide Huawei router for us.
Almost all ISPs I know of always provide bandwidth »up to x Mbps«. If you read the smallprint of the contract you will see that they guarantee a much lower bandwidth only (e.g., for a 1,000 Mbps uplink my provider guarantees 500 Mbps, but usually provides averages of 840 to 920 Mbps over the day with a max. bandwidth of 1,000 Mbps, which actually requires ~1,130 Mbps raw bandwidth to compensate for protocol overhead. ISPs in my country offer routers which are able to process those bandwidths, but customers are free to use their own routers.
Of course, you can get a guaranteed bandwidth from ISPs up to 10 or 40 Gbps for enterprise-class uplinks. But you will pay excessive prices for this bandwidths (e.g. guaranteed 1,000 Mbps over fiber from my ISP costs about 3,500 €/month).
Honestly, I've no idea what GPON is and where it's available. In Europe we still use DOCSIS over copper cable and at some locations we can use plain Ethernet over fiber. I also can't say anything about GPON uplinks or the routers the ISPs provide for such uplinks, but it seems that @AsankaG has experience with those routers, so you should take his advice to replace the router.
We also wanted our cameras to use PoE. What advantages we'll have, if we use TP-link cameras ? (Kasa and Tapo)
KASA/TAPO are consumer products, not suitable for businesses. As you might have seen, a subforum »VIGI Surveillance« has been created recently, but I've not seen any of the new products from the VIGI series.
P.S also at home we use 9 units of Deco M5. They work perfectly and connected each other using wirelessly.
They will fail grandiously in a hotel environment. In general, mesh networks are not suitable for hotels and similar locations. Forget everything you know about home/consumer WiFi systems when planning a WiFi system for a hotel. Yes, all APs should always be wired.
As @AsankaG wrote and I did mention also: prepare to hire a professional consultant anyway, even if you have learned the basics from the discussion in this thread. There is much more fine-tuning to come when deploying a WiFi system for a 70-room hotel and it requires to have on-site access to the rooms for measurements.
Professional network design, deployment and support is especially important for a reliably working surveillance system.
- Copy Link
- Report Inappropriate Content
I am just going to add that CAT6 is not necessary for delivering 1Gig speeds. CAT5e can deliver 1Gbps, 2.5Gbps at 100 meters and many can also deliver 5Gbps at 100 meters (depends upon make / model / quality of the cable). The mGig or multi-rate standard was created more than 5 years ago mainly to support needs to repurpose existing CAT5e cabling to be used for new AC and AX APs that have potential to exceed more than 1Gig of actual throughout and thus needing a 10Gig cabling.
I have myself tested up to 2.5Gbps couple of years ago on a 12 years old CAT5e (Belden) for use with Cisco APs, as well as between two switches. I actually tested it on a cable drum of CAT5e (again Belden) that had 121 meters cable left and 2.5Gbps even worked at that distance.
While we recommend to use CAT6 in new installations, but we also find that sometimes, a saving of 15 to 25% on the materials cost of the new cabling, associated jacks / patch panels etc, can hep you bring the project within the budget or win the deal. So for next many years, even a new CAT5e will suffice for Wi-Fi 6 APs also.
- Copy Link
- Report Inappropriate Content
@AsankaG
Don't use the ISP supplied router to manage traffic
We're still waiting for ISP to confirm which will be used for internet. Either it's GPON or Fiber. If it's GPON, then we can put our Huawei in Bridge mode and connect it to our core TP-link router to manage traffic and everything. Is that correct ?
You would also need to check the SLA agreements for the connection that you're getting
Thank you for information, we'll check this one. Unfortunately, it's the only ISP that can connect our hotel, since it's far away from city and located in mountains.
Using Decos and trying to work with Mesh WiFi would be a disaster
Got it. I just got confused by this EAP225-Outdoor. It says: Omada Mesh Technology: Enables wireless connectivity between APs for extended range, making wireless deployments more flexible and convenient. It's only business AP, that has Mesh technology. What's the use of it, since it's gonna be connected by Ethernet anyway ?
You ought to heed what @R1D2 said earlier and look for a consultant regarding this deployment
Agree. We had our main IT technician, who supposed to do all of it, but unfortunately, after quarantine he become alcoholic. I haven't seen him for a while. Currently we're gonna deploy Ethernet Cable in a few weeks. and start buying Router,Switch, AP in about 4-5 month. We'll consult with IT expert regardless IT devices and their configs, but for now, we just need to know, what cable use, the range and where to put them. And thanks to you guys, we know how to do it and what we need for this.
- Copy Link
- Report Inappropriate Content
@R1D2
But why such bandwidths? Are you expecting hotel guests with their own data center in their luggage?
I'm so sorry about that. I just messed up with numbers here......
Definately, 100mb/s bandwidth speed per AP would be enough for everyone. When I was talking about 1gb/s and 10gb/s I was referring to ISP speed to our hotel, not the speed to each AP. I messed up, sorry about that again.
In that case, we can use Cat 5E or Cat 6. Since Cat 5E can transfer data 1gb/s within 100meters, and cheaper compare to Cat 6, we might consider this. Cat 6 has more frequency, but I believe it does not matter, since we only have 100mb/s now and maybe 1gb/s in future (speed from ISP to hotel)
Of course, you can get a guaranteed bandwidth from ISPs up to 10 or 40 Gbps for enterprise-class uplinks. But you will pay excessive prices for this bandwidths (e.g. guaranteed 1,000 Mbps over fiber from my ISP costs about 3,500 €/month).
Internet here (Uzbekistan) was always expensive, but in past 3 years in dropped 2-4 times. Currently we have 100mb/s unlimited GPON in our office,and we pay only 100$. which is really good deal for office. Usually it's around 500-800$ from other ISP. We believe in future price will go down and after that maybe we can connect to 1gb/s or more. but for now, it's only 100mb/s.
Yes, all APs should always be wired.
Got it. They all will be connected to our PoE switch.
- Copy Link
- Report Inappropriate Content
@dpsguard
I am just going to add that CAT6 is not necessary for delivering 1Gig speeds. A saving of 15 to 25% on the materials cost of the new cabling, associated jacks / patch panels etc, can hep you bring the project within the budget or win the deal.
Good advise, if Cat 5E can deliver up to 1gb/s, then there is no need for Cat 6. We'll see, if cost only about a few hundred dollars, we might use Cat 6, if it exceeds 1000+$, then Cat 5E should do it. We're planning to use Cat 5E for
PoE Switch to AP (100+ devices)
PoE Switch to Cameras (50+ cameras)
AP to Smart TV (70+TV)
AP to VoIP Phone (70+Voip Phone)
Looks like we'll need a very long cable, so we might go with Cat 5E for all of them.
- Copy Link
- Report Inappropriate Content
Information
Helpful: 0
Views: 16510
Replies: 119
Voters 0
No one has voted for it yet.