Wireless 5ghz performance quoting "How to optimize wireless performance of EAP products"

Wireless 5ghz performance quoting "How to optimize wireless performance of EAP products"
Wireless 5ghz performance quoting "How to optimize wireless performance of EAP products"
2021-07-30 13:53:16
Model: EAP660 HD
Hardware Version: V1
Firmware Version: 1.0.1

I feel very conflicted about some decisions in marketing these AP's (maybe conscious or not). but these AP's are marketed at "high density areas" for example hotels, offices etc. And all that while supporting "seamless roaming" and other nice wifi features. such ass "Wi-Fi 6 4 x 4" This is all fine and such.

 

Here the first thing the advertised max speed for 5Ghz is 2400Mbps, but most mobile devices only have 2 x 2 antennas, so already cut that speed in half to 1200Mbps. To be fair this is not something tp-link or the AP can help its just how the current situation is. 

But that speed rating is only accomplished using channel bonding on its maximum supported width, which is 80MHz. Now this is where it gets interesting.

Using 80 MHz will result in your channel looking like this:

Thanks to Metageek:

 

As you can see the channels from 36 all the way up to 48 are now occupied. which coincidentally are exactly the only channels supported by the current EAP models with the Current firmware. Which does have a logical explaination. which is DFS:

 

thanks to: semfionetworks

 

 

DFS: is quite important its very misunderstood by many people seeing it as just a marketing term for "more channels babeh" but it actually means: Dynamic Frequency Selection, which enforces wireless radios on the channel to "move" when they detect radar or flight communications. "Cutting" your wifi connection for some time, which is not nice. But unless your close to a seaport or an airfield this should impact you very minimally.

 

From this point my frustration starts. according TP-links own Regulatory&Compliance.pdf its hardware supports all the way to 5700 MHz, but currently "only" goes to 5250 MHz, this is however not something you can notice by just reading though the specs list or data sheets. All those like to show especially are its theoretically throughput. Which is fine, most companies do, but most company also do support more than 4 5 GHz channels. or 1 at their max rated 5 GHz throughput.

 

I've been reading into this quite allot and there are many topics here questioning if there will be any support for DFS channels at all, and in most of those topics the solutions proposed by TP-link people are simply:

 

  • design your network better.

Which kinda holds true you can design a good network with just 4 channels, it is also possible on the 2.4 Ghz which only has 3 "usable"channels. But that only hold true if you use 20 MHz wide channels.

Remember  5Ghz is 2400Mbps @ 80 MHz. "just" 600Mbps @ 20 MHz. At which point I think, why go for expensive AX equipment at all. With one available channels @ 80 MHz seamless roaming is a fad as you want to space your aps apart with a minimum of  -72Dbi Rssi not mentioning neighboring AP's you don't have any control over whatsoever.

High density environments are a no go now too unless you want to have clients in a radio dessert, or occupy a radio with a very slow connection, MU-MIMO prevents this a bit, IF ALL clients support that. so its not just your AP that has to support MU-MIMO to take advantage of it. (slow connection is a very "long" turn).

Thanks to metageek:

 

 

I recommend reading this nevermind opening post says that those are illegal links thanks tp

to understand why this is a problem at all.

 

  • We cannot support those channels in your region because of regulatory restrictions.

Which again kinda holds true BUT very limited, some region restricted 5GHz implementations only limited the use of certain 20 MHz wide channels, not simply anything beyond channel 48. and many don't restrict any UNII channels at all.

 

So why don't we really have DFS support and if it will come, When will that be, as in : dd/mm/yyyy/ TIME.

I live in a region that doesn't prevent tp-link from using any DFS channels at all, all the hardware has to do is comply to DFS.

 

I'm fine not being answered (TP-LINK)!! at all if you can't state the true reasons why TP-Link can't or will not support DFS, I don't want lazy excuses for not doing it, and putting the blame by the user.

 

Sorry for the long ranty post, but i'm seeing lots of people caught off guard with the limited 5 GHz support, and im not seeing any solutions from tp-link themselves.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Re:Wireless 5ghz performance quoting "How to optimize wireless performance of EAP products"
2021-08-02 08:08:31 - last edited 2021-08-02 08:12:09

@IamDaPanda 

 

This is something people are lobbying TP. Explanation: https://community.tp-link.com/en/business/forum/topic/233314

 

DFS channels are not enabled on EAP because this may cause unstable connections to the end clients. Not avail now.

Hope TP can update this one day. 

Check the last reply from him, maybe helpful? https://community.tp-link.com/en/business/forum/topic/248616

Good day to you no matter where you are.
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Re:Wireless 5ghz performance quoting "How to optimize wireless performance of EAP products"
2021-08-02 16:38:09

@Yannie 

That's funny, i was actually referring to the answer FAE gave in the first link you dropped in my opening post as the second dot.

I Think fae is a very knowledgeable network engineer, but i do question Fae's knowledge on RF. As Fae's answer to that question is disputable at best. Especially quote: "  The US version supports 5G Band1 and 5G Band4, is it still necessary to use DFS channels? "

That would mean that at max supported bandwidth you'd have to work with 2 non-overlapping channels, which makes good network design impossible. I said in my opening post quote " Remember  5Ghz is 2400Mbps @ 80 MHz. "just" 600Mbps @ 20 MHz. At which point I think, why go for expensive AX equipment at all " this is at a 4X4 stream, i also stated that most mobile devices only use 2X2, which results at a max supported throughput of 5GHz @ 20MHz Dual band 2x2 in 300Mbps. for wifi 6 on “business” grade hardware that to me is unacceptable.

For good network designing you need at least 3 non overlapping channels for it to work out, I mean then semi big networks with multiple ap's. (or neighboring ap's) out in the woods in a private home fae is completely right. But these products are not aimed at such an installation, at least not marketed. All their marketing is about is train-stations, schools, hotels and other high density high client based locations. That actually does require good network planning.

Something like this,

Thanks to metageek: (honestly check out their site on wifi networks for an understanding why this is such an issue).



BTW @80 MHz we can just use 4 or 5 non overlapping 5GHz channels, so were bound to the 2,4GHz channel design again. If your device is capable of 160MHz I'd higly recommend not using that as it is a bit of **** move just like using 40MHz on 2.4GHz is. unless you are living in the sticks.


 


 

The other kinda disingenuous argument is the disconnecting issue that “could” take place while using DFS channels. Quoting Fae: “Because it may cause disconnection issues since DFS channels are usually used by other commercial and military services that have higher priority. “


 

What fae is more or less is saying like this is.:We do not trust our business grade partners to understand the implications of using DFS so we decided to disable it worldwide, for the few edge cases it causes trouble, and the installers/wifi engineers, cannot locate the issue and blame our products. To be honest I'm reading between the lines here, but it seriously feels this way, I can not name a single brand in any budget that doesn't support DFS especially “business” grade hardware.

And if so I'd still say that the wifi engineer is responsible to take into consideration if using DFS might be an implication for some services. Or when close to an seaport/military base, airfield. If they didn't that wouldn't be TP-link's responsibility but the engineers. And it would only impede the users of the network.

 

Seeing as that topic is over half a year old I doubt we'll see any changes soon, and till then I would not recommend in spending any money on top end products of TP-link unless you are living completely isolated and don't need more than 2 ap's. Because the maximum bandwidth on anything anything else than 80MHz 2x2 (most devices) is just bad compared to any other ap at this price point.


 


 

 

 

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Re:Wireless 5ghz performance quoting "How to optimize wireless performance of EAP products"
2021-08-19 07:13:08

@IamDaPanda 

 

Okay, so I just found that Fae provided a beta for the 660 in the post below, it seems that beta adds DFS channels.

https://community.tp-link.com/en/business/forum/topic/267736?replyId=622448

 

Sounds good news, perhaps you could try the beta firmware. Good luck!

Good day to you no matter where you are.
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