Which product is right for hotel ?

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Which product is right for hotel ?

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Re:Which product is right for hotel ?
2020-08-26 15:18:46 - last edited 2020-08-26 15:23:26

@dpsguard, in my opinion you do not need separate physical switches, but an isolated broadcast domain for each network. This can be achieved easily with VLANs.

 

SMB switches do not process traffic in software as a PC does. In a switch forwarding is done in hardware and settings are applied in the ASICs. You cannot compare a JetStream switch using HW off-loading with a consumer PC which handles traffic solely in software.

 

The same switch can easily handle 280 Mbps for the cameras and 100 Mbps for the wireless network at the same time without becoming sluggish. However, it's essential to separate both networks using VLANs. IMO it would be of much benefit also to separate the backhauls from the core switch to the access switches, so that each network has its own Gigabit uplink to the core switch, which even gives headroom for more bandwidth when faster Internet will be available in the future.

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#45
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Re:Which product is right for hotel ?
2020-08-26 15:25:44

@R1D2 

 

Correct, but unless the switches are multicast capable and mukticasting is configured correctly. This is what I had seen issues with customer with some SMB switches (not TP link even) and we then siphoned off the video and for the price, it was not worth trouble messing with private network switches.

 

When I said Cisco catalysts, that is what I meant. In there, a separate VLAN, for cameras or other building automation systems, and set up multicating / IGMP snooping and no issues then. Else every multicast packet becomes a broadcast and is to be flooded and thus punted to CPU.

 

Since OP is not an expert ;) and is not using a consultant, my recommendation was not to provide too many details to confuse him further and rather have him spend few hundred dollars, and just set up fully isolated video network outside of the his data / internet services.

 

 

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#46
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Re:Which product is right for hotel ?
2020-08-26 15:38:01

 

dpsguard wrote

Since OP is not an expert ;) and is not using a consultant, my recommendation was not to provide too many details to confuse him further and rather have him spend few hundred dollars, and just set up fully isolated video network outside of the his data / internet services.

 

 

That's a good point. As other posters already did recommend to the OP it's a must to hire a consultant for the actual network design and deployment.

 

And if the cameras are elsewhere, but not in the floors, it's definitely an improvement to use a physically separated network.

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#47
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Re:Which product is right for hotel ?
2020-08-29 08:54:16 - last edited 2020-08-29 08:55:42

@dpsguard @R1D2 @nek

If we can make it without additional Switch using VLan and isolating them, that would be great. 

As I mentioned before in this post, WE WILL hire IT consultant for this that will help us with questions like:

- What type of router do we need
- How many and types of switches will be used (including PoE budget)
- How many IP cameras will be installed
- Best way to put cables and so on.


But we need to explain him what exactly we want and our vision, and in order to do so, we'll need some basic knowledge about networking and thanks to you guys, we already have some basic knowledge about it. At least now we can explain and understand how things works.

P.S we decided to use Cat 6 cable. It's only +20% here so not a big deal for 4 star hotel. Imagine me with basic knowledge doing all networking in 4 star hotel, that would be disaster :)

 

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#48
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Re:Which product is right for hotel ?
2020-08-29 13:53:24 - last edited 2020-08-29 13:54:33

 

Boriy wrote
P.S we decided to use Cat 6 cable. It's only +20% here so not a big deal for 4 star hotel.

 

Do not decide the cable type until you have ensured whether it fits into the EAP235-Wall jack. There is extremely little space in a flush-mounted box. For example, Hirose RJ45 connectors for CAT.6 cables probably do not fit due to their dimensions.

 

I would use UBNT ToughCable CAT.5e with TC-CON for the last cable from the PoE switch to an EAP-Wall. Albeit designed for outdoor use, they have a big advantage compared to normal patch cables, that is their solid wires, which have less energy loss.

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#49
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Re:Which product is right for hotel ?
2020-08-29 14:05:36

@Boriy 

 

Further to recommdations by R1D2, also check if your jurisdiction will require using plenum rated cables indoors. Generally is the case here in North America and believe in Europe, for commercial / business use case. In case of catching fire, these produce very little smoke. If you do elect to use Tough cable, then you will also need to look into if it is plenum rated (not sure of this one, but other Shielded (STP) cables that we used to use for outdoors radios, they were not, and we will stop this outdoors STP at the cable entry point on the wall just inside of it, and as per code, we will then also install surge suppressors and then run plenum rated indoors cables from that point onward to telecom / network closet.

 

Looks like you are not leaving anything for the consultant as he / she should know all this and much more and you are probably leaving only the configuration part for that person to do. All design work, that includes cabling design and the equipment selection, also is part of the consultant normally.

 

Anyway, you have now lots of knowledge to successfully implement the solution.

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#50
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Re:Which product is right for hotel ?
2020-08-29 14:37:09 - last edited 2020-08-29 14:39:01

 

dpsguard wrote

Generally is the case here in North America and believe in Europe, for commercial / business use case.

 

In Europe, requirements to use Halogen-free cable is for public/governmental buildings only. Private and business buildings usually use such cables, too, but there are generally no requirements in Europe, since it's pretty much standard here to use Halogen-free premium cable.

UBNT ToughCable is Halogen-free, of course, and specs explicitly include indoor use.

 

 

 

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#51
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Re:Which product is right for hotel ?
2020-08-29 14:58:39 - last edited 2020-08-29 14:59:13

@R1D2 

 

Not sure where do you read in the datasheet, as I have for few years in the past, been a wireless ISP in US and before that I have been a mictowave radio engineer and never found any outdoors rated cable to be suitable for indoors and with low flame / smoke rated. But as long as OP can confirm that this cable will meet their needs, they are good to go.

 

https://community.ui.com/questions/ToughCable-Rating-for-Indoors/6be85258-4be2-43be-bd7f-e852e57cd72a

 

 

 

 

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#52
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Re:Which product is right for hotel ?
2020-08-29 16:50:25 - last edited 2020-08-29 17:08:23

 

dpsguard wrote

Not sure where do you read in the datasheet

 

Maybe there is a mis-understanding here. In Europe there are no requirements for special LSZH cables if used indoors.

But there are requirements for Halogen-free cables used indoors in public buildings.

 

Polyethylen (PE) used for ToughCable is Halogen-free.

 

As for the linked forum article, that's a valid opinion from a user.

Here is another: https://community.ui.com/questions/TOUGHCable-Carrier-for-inside-runs/08130990-9bcf-444c-b6fc-e83ce98f39fc#answer/1f98946b-40c4-4178-b100-fed26c95931b

 

The point is: if you ask an electrician in my country to deploy a cable, he will use CAT.7 cable with solid wires (so-called installation cable, that's not the same as patch cable). The termination requires pressing this solid wires into a wall-socket or patch panel. It looks like the orange cables here in the patch panel (cover opened). BTW: the grey cable #3 is an old-fashioned CAT.5e installation cable with an extra ground-wire, just because the CAT.7 didn't fit into the 6mm cable duct used in old houses here:

 

 

 

Now, in an outdoor installation some years ago I requested CAT.5e cable from the customer's electrician to connect a TP-Link WBS210 outdoor AP.

 

The electrician got the exact specs and even a picture of suitable cable, but when I arrived at the location for deployment of the WBS it turned out, that the electrician had run above CAT.7 cable 1.5m under ground (in Europe it's standard for electricians to use CAT.7 cable for preparation to 10 Gbps networks, but they have seldomly heard of outdoor cables).

 

When asked why he did not deploy a CAT.5e cable as requested, he claimed that CAT.5e cables are not available anymore on the market (which is bullshit, they are still available even in my local HW shop here, from which I got the grey cable #3 in the patch panel).

 

When I asked how he plans to crimp a RJ45 plug to this cable, he drove away to next HW shop and brought back this one:

 

 

 

Needless to say that this fat plug (as well as the 7mm CAT.7 cable) does not fit in any EAP nor in WBS/CPE.

 

At maximum a Hirose CAT.6 plug fits into indoor EAPs, but not in EAP-Outdoor nor WBS/CPE.

 

Thus, I use standard CAT.6 patch cables (not installation cable!) with a Hirose plug for indoor EAPs normally.

But those cables don't fit into the jacks of all TP-Link outdoor APs, be it the Omada or the Pharos line.

 

In those cases where there is not much space, I now assemble ToughCables for myself since the experience with this electrician:

 

 

 

They have following advantages:

  • Only 5mm thickness of the outer jacket,
  • it has solid wires instead of stranded wires used in patch cables,
  • thus lower capacity, lower loss of energy if PoE is used,
  • a small RJ45 plug can be crimped (as with patch cables),
  • extra ground wire for grounding,
  • PiMF shielding (the PRO cable, CARRIER has an additional braid shield, but it is 6.3mm thick).

 

 

Now, see the installation guide for 225-Wall (235-Wall still not available here, but it has a similar jack).

You won't have more space in European flush-mounted sockets as to fit a TC-CON into it.

 

However, that's just my experience and my opinion. I have no shares of UBNT. :-)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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#53
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Re:Which product is right for hotel ?
2020-08-29 18:06:20

@R1D2 

I'm definitely missing something here....

Here's our Cat 6 cable





And  we need to put it into RJ45  and it will be like this (edge need to be cut in this picture)



After we need to put one end to the PoE switch and other end to the back of the EAP225-Wall that looks like this :




After that AP will be powered and start working (after all configs done)


Is that the only way or it could be done in other way ?  
I thought all RJ45 connectors are the same size
​​​​​​​
I'm a little confused 

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#54
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