EAP225-Outdoor, OC200 & Mesh

EAP225-Outdoor, OC200 & Mesh
EAP225-Outdoor, OC200 & Mesh
2020-04-28 18:46:11
Hardware Version: V6
Firmware Version:

I am considering deploying EAP225-Outdoor AP's and an OC200 controller in Mesh mode to provide WiFi outdoors along a creek. The piece of property is about 3/4 mile long.

 

I've read the Omada Controller UG and have a good understanding of Mesh and how it works, limitations, etc.

- Does it support multiple Root AP's?

- Could I, in theory, use PtP links to extend the Root AP's physically further from the base station?

- Would multiple Root AP's help control the Max 3 Hop issue in the Mesh network?

 

TIA

 

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11 Replies
Re:EAP225-Outdoor, OC200 & Mesh
2020-04-29 02:08:42

@TriuneTechAZ 

 

- Does it support multiple Root AP's?

 

Yes, it is recommended to use Root APs as much as passible. If you just have one Root AP, then this AP need to handle all the traffic from Mesh AP (wireless), it may affect the performance of the Mesh network. 

 

- Could I, in theory, use PtP links to extend the Root AP's physically further from the base station?

You mean use the CPE products to do the PtP wireless connection, just like this topoloty: Router-- CPE     ))))     CPE --- Root AP ))) Mesh AP? Yes, you can use it in this way, the wireless connect between CPE is just like a wired Ethernet cable, connect the Root AP to the Router directly.

 

- Would multiple Root AP's help control the Max 3 Hop issue in the Mesh network? 

Generally speaking, it is recommended to use Mesh network less than 2 hop ( Root AP ))) 1 hop Mesh AP ))) 2 hop Mesh AP). Multiple Root AP will improve the bandwidth, capacity and stability of the Mesh network. Since all the traffic will be handled by Root AP, if you just have one Root AP and it can handle 60 clients, then the Mesh network can only hold 60 wireless clients. But if you use 3 Root AP, then the Mesh network can handle about 3x60=180 wireless clients.

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Re:EAP225-Outdoor, OC200 & Mesh
2020-04-29 03:03:56 - last edited 2020-04-29 03:06:37

Hello @TriuneTechAZ,

 

First a few comments, questions:

 

0.75miles is 1207 meters.  How frequently along this path do you have power available?  Are there existing / spare conduits that connect these lamp posts?  What's at the other end of the path?  For example, do you have broadband internet at both ends of the path or only one?  I'm not sure what your application is.  But is Wifi the best solution, versus say cellular Microcell?

 

How many concurrent wireless clients (people walking with handsets, cameras, etc.) do you expect?  Per 100m, along the entire path?

 

EAP225-Outdoor range is at best 100m (radius) with the Omni directional antenna.  Perhaps a bit less.  

 

Ethernet 5e/6/7 range is 100meters.  Fiber is much further.  PoE range is 50m-100m depending on the spec/voltage.

 

Root nodes must be "hard wired."  That is to say, they must be connected to Ethernet for backhaul.  But, that backhaul could then transmitted using a point to point long range wireless AP back to one or more common locations as Jonas suggested.  (TP-Link CPE210 or CPE510).

 

For example, let's say you have broad band ethernet at only one end of the path.  Let's say each root node supports 4 wireless MESH AP's (two daisy chained in either direction)

 

Start Segment 1

BASE (ISP, Ethernet connected EAP225-Outdoor; Ethernet connected CPE510 downlink, ethernet connected OC200)

~100m away (some testing will be needed here, I'm thinking <<100m)

1st Hop EAP225-Outdoor Wireless MESH

~100m away

2nd Hop EAP225-Outdoor Wireless MESH

End Segment 1

 

~100m away

 

Start Segment 2

2nd Hop EAP225-Outdoor Wireless MESH

~100m away

1st Hop EAP225-Outdoor Wireless MESH

~100m away

Root Node (Ethernet connected EAP225-Outdoor; CPE510 uplink back to basecamp)

~100m away 

1st Hop EAP225-Outdoor Wireless MESH

~100m away

2nd Hop EAP225-Outdoor Wireless MESH

End Segment 2

 

~100m away

 

Start Segment 3

2nd Hop EAP225-Outdoor Wireless MESH

~100m away

1st Hop EAP225-Outdoor Wireless MESH

~100m away

Root Node (Ethernet connected EAP225-Outdoor; CPE510 uplink back to basecamp)

~100m away 

1st Hop EAP225-Outdoor Wireless MESH

~100m away

2nd Hop EAP225-Outdoor Wireless MESH

End Segment 3

 

I think something like this should work.  I'm assuming you'll have very few concurrent wireless clients (aka STA's).  I think both Segment 2 and Segment 3 CPE's can uplink to the same CPE at Basecamp, but I'm not 100% sure.  But given that these are limited to ~300Mbit/sec "sharing" may not be the best solution anyway.  Plus you'll want to aim them well, so a pair per segment is probably a better solution.

 

I think 100m between AP's is a bit of stetch.  Some testing and adjustment may be needed.  Of course you'll need power at every AP along the way.  Due to the way the wireless mesh works, all AP's per segment will use the same 5.8GHz channel so you'll want to alternate 5.8GHz channels per segment and 2.4GHz channels per AP (1,6,11,1,6,11, etc.)  You'll have to experiment on the BW (20/40/80) of this channel vs. range.  It might be best to limit STA's to using the 2.4GHz radios and just use the 5.8GHz for the MESH.

 

-Jonathan

 

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Re:EAP225-Outdoor, OC200 & Mesh
2020-06-10 02:38:11

Hi @TriuneTechAZ,

 

What did you decide to do?

 

-Jonathan

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Re:EAP225-Outdoor, OC200 & Mesh
2020-06-10 16:55:04

Hi @JSchnee21 ,

 

Thanks for reaching out. With the whole COVID-19 thing this project got put on hold.

Now that things are beginning to slowly open back up I'm trying to get this restarted.

I should know in a couple weeks if I'm successful.

 

Thank you for all the helpful info. I want to get an OC200 and a few EAP225-Outdoor

units and start Alpha testing various configurations & distances to collect data ahead

of a more formal Beta program. I'll try to post back once the Alpha phase is underway.

 

Thanks again!

 

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Re:EAP225-Outdoor, OC200 & Mesh
2020-06-10 17:38:49

Hi @TriuneTechAZ,

 

Thanks for the update.  No worries!  It's just there has been a lot of chatter on the board recent about the outdoor units and MESH.  With one poster using them for a marina and another for an outdoor courtyard.  I also have one at home now, for my back yard, which is MESH'ed with a hardwired EAP225V3 I have in the house.

 

The bigger challenge I see for you are the longer distances, linear layout, and having power along the route.

 

I'm actually thinking / wondering if a more CPE centic solution might be better for you.  CPE's can actually host clients, if desired (though this is not always optimal).  Or you could potentialy use pairs of CPE's (like a relay baton handoff) if you don't have a linear line of site back to a central location.

 

What is your goal in terms of the network?  Convenience for guests?  Surveillance?  Or somehting else?

 

Throughput over MESH is not very good.  I'm folks are seeing ~100-150 Mbit/sec of usable throughput with a few as two hops (client to AP1, AP1 to AP2 via MESH, AP2 to ethernet (e.g AP2 is the root node)).  This would be even lower of there was a third AP daisy chained off of AP1.).  

 

Also, FYI, the current CPE's only have 100Mbit/sec NIC's.  So their throughput per point to point air link is also limited.

 

Just curious,

Jonathan

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Re:EAP225-Outdoor, OC200 & Mesh
2020-06-10 19:18:43

@JSchnee21 

 

Thanks for the reply. My goal is to provide the best coverage I can over the given area, within reasonable limits of course. If I have to, I'm willing to sacrifice coverage for improved performance.

 

Your suggestion to inject more Root AP's is very helpful. In a perfect world I'd like to be able to offer about 5-7 Mbps per user, which essentially equates to a single 1080p HD stream. I'd like to be able to support about 75 max users initially (Phase 1), with an additional 25 users to be added later (Phase 2). The Phase 1 'group' is kind of in a cluster, whereas the Phase 2 'group' is more spread out further down along the creek making coverage more challenging.

 

Given your explanation of how Root AP's work and the 3 hop rule (not unlike the old Ethernet 3-2-1 rule), I believe if I'm strategic about quantity and location of Root AP's I can achieve something fairly close to my desired goal.

 

I'd considered the CPE's for a hot second, but the 100Mbps Ethernet link is keeping me away. Candidly, I'll be using something else for my PtP links (no offense, sorry).  ;-)

 

Your thoughts & ideas are most appreciated.

 

Thanks.

 

 

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Re:EAP225-Outdoor, OC200 & Mesh
2020-06-10 19:34:29

Thanks @TriuneTechAZ,

 

No offense to me, I'm a customer like you.  Whatever products works the best and fits the budget.

 

The general consensus so far, if possible, is to keep the 5.8GHz free for the MESH and force clients onto the 2.4GHz network.  This works nicely especially when BW limitations are implement per client anyway.  The marina, for example, is using 10 Mbit/sec per client (which is 10,000 in Omada).

 

But, this does limit each AP to serving at most ~15ish actively (simultaneously) streaming clients at 5 or 6 Mbit/sec each -- due to the limit of the 2.4GHz 802.11n capability -- at 20MHz. But assuming you will have multiple (e.g. 3 or 4ish) MESH'ed AP's connected to the root node, this lines up nicely with 5.8GHz back haul capacity.

 

You can have more total wireless clients than say (#AP * 15) assuming they are not all simultaneously streaming.  Alternatively, if you only have a small number (e.g. one or two)  MESH'ed nodes per root node AP, you can potentialy over 5GHz to clients as well up until the point that they start to significantly interfere with wireless backhaul.

 

Assuming your users are walking / moving around from AP to AP while streaming, you'll also want to make sure you have reliable access to an OC-200 or Omada server as well for fast roaming.

 

-Jonathan

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Re:EAP225-Outdoor, OC200 & Mesh
2020-08-09 10:22:15

@jonas 

 

Is there any chance you can help me?

 

I am in the middle of teying to set up a mesh network..

I have got the oc200 installed and successfully connected to a wires eap225 outdoor. 

But thats where my success ends im trying to connect another eap225 wirelessly but the OC200 can see it unless i connect it via an eithernet cable. 

 

I have tried setting it up via eithernet and then unplugging it to force it on to wireless but once unplugged it just becomes disconnected and i can do anything with it via the controller. 

 

I have tried a factory reset and that didnt help

 

I have tried factory reset on everything  (oc200 and both eap225 oudoor u its) that just wasted a lot of time and didnt help. 

 

I have upgraded the firmware in everything to the latest available on the tplink website. 

 

Where am i going wrong.? 

 

Cheers

Duncan

 

 

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Re:EAP225-Outdoor, OC200 & Mesh
2020-08-10 01:53:58

Dear RYYC

 

When you try setting up the mesh network with the second EAP225-outdoor, you may pay attention to the 5G channel.

 

If your EAP225-outdoor is US version, it's suggested to have them working in 5G Band 4 (channel 149-165), also ensure they are not placed too far away.

 

Note: for Mesh AP, the recommended signal of Uplink AP is between -40dBm and -62dBm.

 

Hope this information is helpful. Please write back to us if you need any further assistance, we'll be glad to assist you.

Best Regards!
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Re:EAP225-Outdoor, OC200 & Mesh
2020-09-17 22:14:27

@TriuneTechAZ I see you are very familiar with the eap225 outdoor.  I am trying to have one eap225 wired to router and one wireless for my kids to connect out in our barn.  I have read and tried to do all the settings but so far I have the 1 eap connected and one says isolated.  Do you need to have a oc200 or can you run the controller on a pc.  
 

thanks

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