@twmem 

 

Hey

 

A number of things come to mind, hopefully, be able to answer some of your questions!

 

My house requires a FritzBox router plus total 5 access-points to make sure I have internet really everywhere inside and around.

Currently I have a number of Omada Controlled Access points from TP Link simply because I have RJ45 sockets everywhere!!! Some are older, some newer. The newest is the EAP230 Wall. All use the same SSID for 2.4 and 5Ghz. But since my last new model (EAP230) was installed I regularly experience that sometimes opening a website hangs for quite some time. I searched everywhere in the setting but could not find a reason.

 

Also walking around the house often lets the connection break and restart.

 

The EAP230 and other WALL devices do not support K/V/R seamless roaming, mainly cause they are not designed for that.   These devices are for use in hotel rooms, dorms, etc where you don't have the need to roam as it's specifically serving one room only.   This would likely be one of the reasons your WiFi cuts and reconnects as it cannot seamlessly roam to these WALL devices.      The hanging could be that it's trying to authenticate/establish a new session on the 230 and the controller sees it as having one already in place that is trying to roam.   Not experienced this in Omada world, but have with other vendors.. it will 'hang' the traffic until it decides to drop the roam attempt and create a new session.

 

 

Now I read about WiFi 6. Since the signal is stronger I maybe would need much less Access Points with that?

 

That's quite a bold statement, mostly marketing if honest!    WiFi6 is just the new standard and yes it does come with faster speeds and higher capacity, but the signal is signal and no real fiddling with modulation is ever going to make massive changes there.    If you are getting -70db signal through one wall with WiFi 5, it might be -68db on a WiFi 6 AP due to the advanced features, antenna design, error handling, etc, however, it's not going to dramatically change the physical range of the signal as this is ultimately a limitation.   

 

The advantage you will have is that a WiFi6 AP will transfer data faster at -70db than vs the equivalent at WiFi5

 

Its also worth noting you will see no advantage unless the client is also using a WiFi6 card/hardware.

 

 

And I always read the wording "Mesh network" which is described to flawlessly hand over the wifi connection from one to the next router of same type.

 

This is called "seamless roaming" and is related to the wifi standards    K/V/R.   This is the underlying technology used by Omada EAPs to hand over from AP to AP and likely what you already have in place (with the exception of the WALL units)

 

Mesh is a term build on this base technology where you have One Master Node and other nodes all dotted around the place, they all use the KVR roaming standards to move the clients around the mesh..  the main difference between a Mesh and what you have (APs and Controller) is that "Mesh" setups tend to use the WiFi to talk between the nodes in terms of the backbone (no LAN cables), where the more standard controller and EAP setup uses LAN cables and switches.   

 

 

It makes me think again... shall I replace everything with new Wifi 6 models (starting maybe with just 3 and see if that is fine?)?

 

Ultimately your call, however IMHO i don't see 3x WiFi6 APs replacing the range/coverage of  5 or more nodes. 

 

Also if you don't have WiFi6 clients, it's no advantage at all really! 

 

 

And shall I use them as pure WiFi Mesh without Access-Point mode to benefit from the Mesh-feature of "smooth hand-over to the next router"?

Or should that feature also work same way when I use AP-mode????

 

The EAP6xx range currently don't support MESH, namely that I can't talk over a wireless backbone.  If you are just after seamless roaming, then yes 3x EAP6xx all connected and controlled by the Omada controller would give you that functionality.

 

 

 

 

 

 

@Philbert Thank you!

We mainly use newest models of iPhones, iPads and relatively new laptops which may or may not have Wifi 6. It is a private home, so the activity is not really like in an office or hotel.

But when I buy new, I like the newest and best, so I will go for WiFi 6 for sure.

 

Alright, then seamless roaming means I need 802.11k/v/r.

Now I see the EAP6xx have k/v but no r. I am not so sure what that missing r will mean to me finally. Can you explain?

 

How about the DECO models? They can be used as access points, have WiFi 6 and in the general description it is described that they all support the standards 802.11k/v/r (even though it is not shown when looking at the spec).

I could take total 4 or 5 pcs and just replace everything completely.

What speaks for the EAP6xx and against the DECOs?

Regards,

Thorsten

 

@twmem 

 

K V and R is just the official standards, generally, however they come under the term "seamless roaming".   R specifically is fast handover which makes the roaming process a tad quicker to complete vs non R setups.  I wouldn't get too hung up on the missing R thing, really you are just after seamless roaming and any of the EAP6xx range will do that for you.   Likely R will be added in a later firmware, you likely wouldn't even notice the difference! 

 

In short.. 

K is the ability to roam, plain and simple

R is an extension that makes this faster (you won't notice a difference in a home setup, but it is faster)

V is the specific version for IPads and IPhones, cause as like most things Apple they do it differently! 

 

OK so EAP vs Deco... in a nutshell, they are targeted for different sectors. 

 

The Omada range (EAP6xx) is business orientated, it will be most expensive and generally faster all around (2.5gb LAN for example) will also handle many more clients, roughly 100+ per access point.   They will also be supported for a longer time and have more updates/features, but will cost a LOT more!

 

The Deco range is home grade stuff.  Being honest its likely perfectly fine for your setting and will be a lot cheaper.  However, it's not as high capacity (perhaps 25 / 30 devices per node, 100 total), the backbone wont be as fast and its not as configurable.  Support wise it won't be updated as much and will likely become the end of life earlier.  However, it is a LOT cheaper!    Generally I use the Deco range in AP mode for a lot of install in homes, it works and its handy that you can just buy and add nodes as required.

 

If I was you, just go the AX WiFi6 Deco and litter the place in them.   I use the Omada EAP range as its my line of work, however 99% of my "home user" installs are Deco and found them to be rock solid.

 

There is also the big WiFi6E to consider!   Its coming and some devices (Deco x96) have it out soon.  Basically, 6E opens the 6ghz frequency for REALLY fast speeds close to 10gbps.  It's one of the reasons I didn't bother jumping on the WiFi6 bandwagon, it was IMHO just an upgrade of WiFi5, the speeds are not drastically different from 5 to 6, certainly not enough to warrant the 4x price increase, 6E will change that! 

 

Just my 2 cents

 

 

@Philbert Ok. One more difference seems that the DECOs seem not to support PoE and there are no outdoor models. Am I right?

 

I need at least one outdoor model or I simply keep my EAP225 Outdoor where it is (below the roof overhang) and just replace the others (EAP115, EAP230-Wall, CAP1750, another EAP225-Outdoor that is used indoors).

I run them all with PoE, but I think I have power sockets near all of them... I need to check that again.

 

In case I need at least one PoE model, should I mix 3 pcs DECO with one EAP6xx ?

 

WiFi 6E seems to be some time away until we see a certain model variety.

Regards,

Thorsten

@twmem 

 

Yeah you are right, the DECO is home grade and therefore is designed to primarily use the WiFi backhaul, therefore POE and multigig LAN is not on these devices.   The same with an outdoor model, home users generally would have no use for an outdoor Deco

 

You cannot mix Deco and Omada, they don't work together and cant roam from one to another, sadly its one or the other.  Deco cannot be controlled from an Omada controller.

 

WiFi 6E was announced by most vendors at CES 2021 and models are already available to buy, doubt it that's far away to be honest.

 

 

 

 

@Philbert They can't roam although they use same frequencies and same 802.11k/v and other standards? You sure?

Wow, I was thinking that even different brands of APs would be able to roam if they use similar, compatible standards to exchange information with each other.

 

When do you expect Omadas with 6E to be released?

@twmem 

 

It's not the KVR standard that is the issue with roaming between Deco and Omada, rather that the two models have different controllers.

 

Deco has a "controller" built into the main node, it manages the other Deco nodes and chooses when to roam clients.   The Omada uses the OC200/Software controller for the same thing, however, it cannot see the Deco nodes and therefore cannot adopt or control them and that means cant initiate a roam to them.

 

Although roaming is really just a standard (KVR) it does require a controller in place and the APs managed by that controller, the Deco and Omada controllers can only manage their respective hardware.

 

WiFi6E was announced at CES 2021 back in Jan, TP Link stated hardware for this year, most are expecting Q3 release.   I know other vendors have started to sell the 6E hardware within the last few weeks (Linksys) so one would imagine TPLink are not far behind.   However I only expect this to be Deco and OneMesh range, I cannot see a EAP running 6E until next year.  

 

 

@Philbert I think this is my last question:

Will my two EAP225-Outdoor and the one EAP115 do seamless roaming together in combination with EAP6xx?

If yes, I will just go for 2-3 EAP6xx for the most frequented areas

@twmem 

 

The EAP225 Outdoor and EAP660 will definitely work on SDNv4, roaming should be fine via the controller

 

The EAP115 I'm not so sure about, its an older devices now.   If you are going to spend the money for 3x 620s then I would look to replace that 115 also, something like a 225 should suffice