Can I Pair CPE610 (AP) with CPE510 (client)?

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Can I Pair CPE610 (AP) with CPE510 (client)?

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Can I Pair CPE610 (AP) with CPE510 (client)?
Can I Pair CPE610 (AP) with CPE510 (client)?
2020-01-25 10:46:31 - last edited 2020-02-22 13:36:31

as the title says. and what do to know the latency I will get from 2km distance. I'm living in rural place and I believe that only trees are the blockage between the two. 

I will install the device, at the roof of two-story building with 10feet pipe. thanks in advance to those who will share their experience on this device. 

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Re:Can I Pair CPE610 (AP) with CPE510 (client)?-Solution
2020-02-22 13:03:51 - last edited 2020-02-22 13:36:31

@NAJIV

 

1) When pairing two or more CPE610 with a single AP (PtMP scenario), the decision to use a CPE510 as the AP depends on the angle the two (or more) CPE610s are located. Thus, it can make sense to use a CPE510 if the CPE610 are at different locations exceeding the narrow antenna beam width angle of only 9º for a CPE610 on the AP side.

 

If we speak of PtP links, the decision to use two CPE610 in one place and two CPE510 in another place depend solely on the distance: CPE510 can only cover a smaller distance compared to CPE610 (actual distance depends on the region you are in and many other environmental parameters). But the wider antenna beam width of a CPE510 is more susceptible for interferences when lots of foreign APs are around.

 

2) Using CPE610 rather than CPE510 wil not necessarily increase bandwidth, but could avoid interferences which then can lead to a somewhat better bandwidth. It depends on too many environmental parameters to make such a decision w/o knowledge of the environment (which can, BTW, change over time). However, both devices are N300 devices which means the maximum (theoretical) wireless throughput is 300 Mbps according to the 802.11n standard.

 

3) Indeed, aligning two CPE610 can become the more difficult the longer the distance is. OTOH, only CPE610 can cover very long distances.

 

4) Signal strength does not depend on which CPE is client and which one is AP nor does it depend on the direction of traffic. The signal strength determines how strong the signal is on the receiver's side.

 

Both CPEs are always receivers (for the other station) and both CPEs are always senders (again for the other station), albeit not at the same time. Thus, signal strength is independent of the current direction of electromagnetic waves or data flow. If you reduce signal strength on one station only, the link will break down completely since replies from the opposite station can't find their way back.

 

5) Yes, you're wrong: AP and client mode doesn't influence up- or download badnwidths. Once a client has successfully connected to an AP, data flows in both directions.

 

Strictly speaking, the »speed« of electromagnetic waves is always the same for each wireless device, it's nearly the speed of light. What makes a difference is the bandwidth and therefore the throughput of a device which determines the amount of data which can be transferred. There is no such thing as »fast« EM waves or »slow« EM waves, they always travel at the same speed.

 

In wireless networks you always try to achieve the maximum possible throughput to allow the CPE to acquire the channel only for the shortest possible time to give the remote CPE an opportunity to acquire the channel for sending back data. That's called »AirTime« a device needs to acquire. But you can not influence the actual WiFi rate the clients negotiate with an AP dynamically. If there are interferences, they will negotiate a smaller WiFi rate even if they had a better rate before, thus dynamically reducing throughput.

 

Regarding AirTime: when CPE #1 is sending, CPE #2 must listen to the stream and can't send a signal itself. That's called »half-duplex« mode: only one CPE can send data at any given time (nowadays techniques such as MU-MIMO allow wireless connections from more senders at the same time, but let's ignore that for the sake of simplicity, the basic principle still remains). When both stations are sending, the EM waves will collide in the air corrupting the data they transport and transmission must be repeated again.

 

6) For a PtP link it doesn matter which CPE is the AP and which is the client. It just matters for the initial wireless connection. After this connection has been achieved, the link can be used to send data in both directions. There is no single »sender« and »receiver«, both stations are always sending and receiving over time.

 

7) Signal strength need to be the same for a certain distance to allow EM waves to travel through the air. Air is an obstacle for electromagnetic waves, too, as are trees, walls, rain, snow, etc.). Due to those obstacles the EM waves lose strength on their way through the air.

 

So, yes, both the client and the AP always need the same high gain antennas. That's the reason why a CPE can't connect to a cheap WiFi router / can't supply smartphones over very long distances, albeit the remote WiFi device can probably receive the CPE's SSID, but can't itself connect to the CPE.

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Re:Can I Pair CPE610 (AP) with CPE510 (client)?
2020-01-25 13:47:05 - last edited 2020-01-25 13:48:04

@NAJIV, you can use CPE610 to link to CPE510, but you will have to properly align their antennas to each other. Keep in mind that CPE610 has a very narrow antenna beam width (9° H, 7° E). A fresnel zone clearance is very important to reach best wireless throughput.

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Re:Can I Pair CPE610 (AP) with CPE510 (client)?
2020-01-26 07:49:14

@R1D2 

thank you very much.

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Re:Can I Pair CPE610 (AP) with CPE510 (client)?
2020-02-22 07:46:02 - last edited 2020-02-22 09:03:11

hello, I bought CPE 610, actually, if only I knew that this model is available in our country, I'd use it in the first place. Now I have a new project and I'm thinking to use the new CPE 610 to my first project so it will be 610(client) pair with 510 and then for my new project instead of using two CPE 610, I'm going to use my first CPE510 (client) to be paired with 610 AP.

What do you think, it would be better to make it this way or should I leave my first project and proceed to 2nd  so it would be CPE 610 = CPE 610 and CPE 510 = CPE 510?
I'm planning to change my 1st project's AP to 610 thinking that it will improve my download speed furthermore. Does it make sense? or i got it wrong?

another idea since i think it will be difficult to align two CPE 610 having narrow beamwidth, do you think it will be better if I'm going to use 510 as client so alignment will not take that difficult. 

Also I don't know if I'm correct but I believe  I don't need too much gain (CPE 610's 23dbi) for my client as I need more download over upload.

correct me if i'm wrong to this thinking:

AP (influence the larger part of download speed)

Client (influence the upload speed. 

 

from (remote/client views)

in additiona to details. my first project has 1.5km distance between AP and Client, and my new project which we are going to work tomorrow, is 7kms apart (AP-Client)

if you are in my place, what would you do?


please enlighten me. Thank you very much.


additional topic,

are high gain antenna needed on both AP and Client? , I've read an article about this one but I want to hear your idea. 

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Re:Can I Pair CPE610 (AP) with CPE510 (client)?-Solution
2020-02-22 13:03:51 - last edited 2020-02-22 13:36:31

@NAJIV

 

1) When pairing two or more CPE610 with a single AP (PtMP scenario), the decision to use a CPE510 as the AP depends on the angle the two (or more) CPE610s are located. Thus, it can make sense to use a CPE510 if the CPE610 are at different locations exceeding the narrow antenna beam width angle of only 9º for a CPE610 on the AP side.

 

If we speak of PtP links, the decision to use two CPE610 in one place and two CPE510 in another place depend solely on the distance: CPE510 can only cover a smaller distance compared to CPE610 (actual distance depends on the region you are in and many other environmental parameters). But the wider antenna beam width of a CPE510 is more susceptible for interferences when lots of foreign APs are around.

 

2) Using CPE610 rather than CPE510 wil not necessarily increase bandwidth, but could avoid interferences which then can lead to a somewhat better bandwidth. It depends on too many environmental parameters to make such a decision w/o knowledge of the environment (which can, BTW, change over time). However, both devices are N300 devices which means the maximum (theoretical) wireless throughput is 300 Mbps according to the 802.11n standard.

 

3) Indeed, aligning two CPE610 can become the more difficult the longer the distance is. OTOH, only CPE610 can cover very long distances.

 

4) Signal strength does not depend on which CPE is client and which one is AP nor does it depend on the direction of traffic. The signal strength determines how strong the signal is on the receiver's side.

 

Both CPEs are always receivers (for the other station) and both CPEs are always senders (again for the other station), albeit not at the same time. Thus, signal strength is independent of the current direction of electromagnetic waves or data flow. If you reduce signal strength on one station only, the link will break down completely since replies from the opposite station can't find their way back.

 

5) Yes, you're wrong: AP and client mode doesn't influence up- or download badnwidths. Once a client has successfully connected to an AP, data flows in both directions.

 

Strictly speaking, the »speed« of electromagnetic waves is always the same for each wireless device, it's nearly the speed of light. What makes a difference is the bandwidth and therefore the throughput of a device which determines the amount of data which can be transferred. There is no such thing as »fast« EM waves or »slow« EM waves, they always travel at the same speed.

 

In wireless networks you always try to achieve the maximum possible throughput to allow the CPE to acquire the channel only for the shortest possible time to give the remote CPE an opportunity to acquire the channel for sending back data. That's called »AirTime« a device needs to acquire. But you can not influence the actual WiFi rate the clients negotiate with an AP dynamically. If there are interferences, they will negotiate a smaller WiFi rate even if they had a better rate before, thus dynamically reducing throughput.

 

Regarding AirTime: when CPE #1 is sending, CPE #2 must listen to the stream and can't send a signal itself. That's called »half-duplex« mode: only one CPE can send data at any given time (nowadays techniques such as MU-MIMO allow wireless connections from more senders at the same time, but let's ignore that for the sake of simplicity, the basic principle still remains). When both stations are sending, the EM waves will collide in the air corrupting the data they transport and transmission must be repeated again.

 

6) For a PtP link it doesn matter which CPE is the AP and which is the client. It just matters for the initial wireless connection. After this connection has been achieved, the link can be used to send data in both directions. There is no single »sender« and »receiver«, both stations are always sending and receiving over time.

 

7) Signal strength need to be the same for a certain distance to allow EM waves to travel through the air. Air is an obstacle for electromagnetic waves, too, as are trees, walls, rain, snow, etc.). Due to those obstacles the EM waves lose strength on their way through the air.

 

So, yes, both the client and the AP always need the same high gain antennas. That's the reason why a CPE can't connect to a cheap WiFi router / can't supply smartphones over very long distances, albeit the remote WiFi device can probably receive the CPE's SSID, but can't itself connect to the CPE.

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Re:Can I Pair CPE610 (AP) with CPE510 (client)?
2020-02-22 13:32:32

@R1D2 

 

thank you very much. 

I understand now that both CPEs can be sender and receiver.
but I'm thinking of AP sending larger data (download) compare to client (upload). which I think AP must have better gain, it does make sense?

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Re:Can I Pair CPE610 (AP) with CPE510 (client)?
2020-02-22 13:57:57 - last edited 2020-02-22 14:08:56

 

NAJIV wrote
I understand now that both CPEs can be sender and receiver.
but I'm thinking of AP sending larger data (download) compare to client (upload). which I think AP must have better gain, it does make sense?

 

No. Just reverse AP and client operation modes and then the client will send larger amounts of data to the AP.

 

But that doesn't matter regarding the gain or the signal strength. It's just that the station sending more data needs to acquire AirTime more often. But every TCP/IP packet needs to be acknowledged, so the remote station must acquire AirTime for sending replies, too. It's not full-duplex transmission like on Ethernet wires, where both, the sender and the receiver can send to each other at the same time.

 

When the remote station is sending data (any amount of data counts, no matter whether it's a smaller or larger amount), it also needs to reach the local station which requires exactly the same signal strength in th eother direction, which solely depends on the distance (or more precisely: the loss of signal strength), but not the amount of data transferred.

 

Imagine your friend 2km away wants to send you a message by using a 10,000 watts headlight signal turned on for 30 seconds. You respond to it with a short acknowledgement that you saw the message, but now using a small pocket light turned on for just 1 second. Do you think your friend could see your pocket lamp's light?

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Re:Can I Pair CPE610 (AP) with CPE510 (client)?
2020-02-23 00:56:35

thank you very much now I  understand how signal works. today we are going to work and base from your idea, I will retain my first project equipment (2 CPE 510) and then for the second project I'm going to use 2 CPE 610. hope this works as the same project or even better. 

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