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3-way HS210 smart switch with in a 4-way configuration

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3-way HS210 smart switch with in a 4-way configuration

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Re:3-way HS210 smart switch with in a 4-way configuration
2021-03-11 23:37:55
Thanks Bethel.8009. I really appreciate the time spent working on my problem. What you say makes a lot of sense but I don't think you erred in your original thoughts. TP-Link makes it clear that the switch can go at either end as they even label the connection "Line/Load". I follow your logic....it needs constant power to work. But if it's at the "load" end it must draw power from a "traveler". Mine however is at the line end. I verified this by checking the "line" wire while flipping the switches at the other locations....it always remained hot. Also, in the app...after I could get it connected again and see it in the app, if the light started as off, I could turn it on again in the app....but that's it! After one use it loses control and I couldn't turn it off again. It throws up a message about no connection. I got it connected again and I told Alexa to turn on the light....it worked. Then I tried turning it off at a switch.....it started flashing. So, I'll continue to play with it but I've spent sooo much time now! BTW, I installed a single pole switch in my office....worked like a charm...piece of cake! Any other thoughts? Thanks so much for your help!!!!!
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#12
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Re:3-way HS210 smart switch with in a 4-way configuration
2021-03-12 00:18:03

I love a good mystery! :) 

dmd4home wrote

TP-Link makes it clear that the switch can go at either end as they even label the connection "Line/Load". I follow your logic....it needs constant power to work. But if it's at the "load" end it must draw power from a "traveler".

@dmd4home I agree with your thoughts there - I too saw the same line/load reference on the common terminal and made same supposition that it must also have ability to draw power from either of the traveller terminals (otherwise could not possibly work at the load end - and it must be either in order for it to work in both input states) But at least we can be certain that it should absolutely work if uses a constant live voltage on the line terminal

Did you try setting up/testing without connecting the travellers? That would be acid test to see if you can set up the wifi and get it to turn on/off with either the app or alexa 

And if you lose the connection, then it pretty much confirms you are losing power - if not the Line, is it remotely possible that you are somehow switching the neutral? 

 

Please note that I do not work for, or have any affiliation with, Kasa TP Link. I am simply an enthusiast who likes helping if I can.
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#13
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Re:3-way HS210 smart switch with in a 4-way configuration
2021-03-12 00:42:59
OK, I just spent more time diagnosing....Yes, I did disconnect both travelers and had complete control of the switch in the app...no problem (and, of course I had no working lights). I reconnected the travelers and I was back to the same problem. I had Alexa turn on the lights...they turned on but then the connection was lost and Alexa could not turn the lights off (they were grayed out in the app). I turned them off manually from an alternate switch and they went out, but began to flash at about a 2 second interval. I repeated this procedure a couple of times starting with the lights on with the same result and off, with the same result. So yes, you are quite right that when the circuit changes state the connection is lost. But why? What goes on within those switches? We know that the hot and neutral are connected and always hot, and always neutral because with the travelers disconnected the switch works fine and never loses the connection. Another interesting observation: ...when the HS210 is cycling and the lights are flashing, the face of the switch is also flashing the orange wifi and the blue circle...though flashing in a different sequence than the lights. If I can catch it just right, and flip an alternate switch to a different state, the wifi control will be re-established......though, again, it will only work for one change of state. Someone must know.....what does the cycling switch/flashing lights mean? Maybe it does require a HS210 at both ends. Where is TP-Link on all of this? Thanks for listening (reading) and for your suggestions!
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#14
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Re:3-way HS210 smart switch with in a 4-way configuration
2021-03-12 01:09:32
Yes, I considered the very remote idea of the neutral being switched too....it would explain this situation. But I'm not sure how these lights would have worked for all these years. Pretty remote.....but I suppose it could be picking up a different neutral at the load end.....hmmm. I guess I could run a voltmeter between the hot and neutral and manually flip switches. I'd lose voltage if the neutral switched. I'll check it out.....thanks.
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#15
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Re:3-way HS210 smart switch with in a 4-way configuration
2021-03-12 01:47:43
Well, as remote as it might be.....that indeed is the case. My neutral is NOT a neutral but is part of the switched circuit. That certainly explains all of this. Sorry about the runaround! I will have to talk with the electrician.....wait, that was me! Those white wires should have been marked!....again, wait, that was me. But, this one is a bit complicated in that there are 7 different switches and I wired it 20 years ago.....no, 30 years ago! Wow, I will need to trace this out. I'm not sure how I'm bringing the hot in without a corresponding neutral in the same 14/2 romex feed with the expected 14/3 going out. Perhaps I can put the HS210 at the load end...though that gets complicated as there are 5 switches in that box and not a lot of room. Yikes, I've wasted a lot of time here with my silly mistake. Thanks so much for bearing with me.
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#16
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Re:3-way HS210 smart switch with in a 4-way configuration
2021-03-12 02:37:18

@dmd4home happy to work through this with you and pleased you have at least found the issue, if not yet quite the ultimate solution!

Were you perhaps using some whites as travelers? Might you possibly have a fixed neutral on the outgoing 14/3 (or at least able to make it so from whichever box that 14/3 originates?) Neutral is Neutral so whatever you can do to get it in that primary box would be great (but I'd also want to find out how/why that one is being switched!!) 

Good luck with the final steps in getting it worked out! 

Please note that I do not work for, or have any affiliation with, Kasa TP Link. I am simply an enthusiast who likes helping if I can.
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#17
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Re:3-way HS210 smart switch with in a 4-way configuration
2021-03-12 03:56:46
Thanks so much for your patience on this. I do feel like an idiot. The white "neutrals" were wire nutted together in the box...of course I assumed it was a neutral. The hot and travelers are, of course red and black. But the "neutral" is not a neutral at all...it's a switched hot! If I check the voltage between it and ground I show 120v....and then, of course 0 if I flip a switch. I don't know how the HS210 did anything at all. As far as I can see, for the neutral it was either getting NOTHING or a switched HOT. I'll have to spend some time and trace this out. Man!....Who wired this place??? Thanks!
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#18
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